I'm talking about the ` climate models which predict mean global temperature going out to the end of the century used for political purposes . Weather models are much more tied to reality .

The spectral GHG paradigm , aka: box , claims the ~ 33c difference between the inexcusably crude estimate of our planet's radiative equilibrium and our ~ 288K is due to a spectral ` GreenHouse effect .  My Heartland talk mainly works thru the handful of lines of K , starting from the computation of the 5.e-6 of the celestial sphere the disk of the Sun covers , ( is that a model ? ) to show the quantitative absurdity of claiming that Venus's bottom of atmosphere temperature ,  about 400K above its orbital gray body temperature of ~ 323 , about 2.25 time that orbital temperature , about 25 times the kinetic energy density , is due to some spectral effect .
James Hansen et al's 1981 paper which is an embarrassment to NASA , seems to have been instrumental in coalescing  the paradigm , attributing w/o derivation or equation the gravitational adiabatic ` lapse gradient ( the 33c ) to some sort of spectrum heat trapping rather than the universal tradeoff of gravitational and kinetic energy .

Both sides of the debate , including on the ` skeptics side Roy Spencer , Anthony Watts , Willis Eschenbach , have been ` trapped in this box , actively disparaging any idea that gravity has to be considered . But , if you are writing energy balance equations , and believe in conservation of energy , of course it does .

As I said , these AGW models are pathetic . They go off  into Navier-Stokes finite models w/o ever deeply understanding the most simple non-optional testable quantitative classical  physics . They are making claims about the planet getting a percent or 2 hotter in the next century -- well it used to be , now its down to 80 years , when they literally don't know how to calculate the temperature of a billiard ball under a sunlamp .

Well , you asked ,

BobA

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On 2020-08-11 15:11, Rick Collins wrote:

I'm just trying to understand what you are saying about the AGW models.  You seem to want to throw in a lot of unrelated material and use rather colorful language rather than speaking directly to the point.

Are you saying that every climate model ignores the impacts of gravity on weather?  Or are you saying that the models take some sort of short cut to achieving a calculable model? 

Are there models of the climate that do take into account the impact of gravity and so are more reliable?   Or are you comparing the models developed by the scientists only to your own?

Regards,

Rick Collins


At 04:01 PM 8/11/2020, you wrote:

This is severely off topic , but because I've lived my life since the mid `70s with APL level math at my fingertips , previously in K .CoSy , now with 4th. CoSy and being appalled by the amateur level of math and physics I saw in the AlGoreWarming  anti-science , I started implementing the most basic non-optional physics starting with our orbital geometry and the basic laws of radiative energy transfer . See http://cosy.com/#PlanetaryPhysics in general , and my Heartland ICCC9 talk in particular .

The proximal point is , that because the climate models are such crap ( they literally deny by omission Newton's 330 year old universal Law of Gravity which applies to molecules as well as satellites ) , it is common to dis models as a tool in general . I had been replying to a tweet by ( the great ) Patrick Moore to that effect when , having just received the https://www.comsol.com announcement -- a company from what I see at least comparable to https://www.mathcad.com -- I tweeted that link back to Moore as an example of real physical modeling , not the AGW crap , aka: garbage , models .

 I see libraries and facilities of systems like Comsol and Mathcad being useful tools in association with CoSy which intrinsically , being in open Forth , has far greater ` flexibility they can possibly have . It's like even systems like Kx.com
and Dyalog interface to systems like R for tools and algorithms that would be redundant to implement in K or APL .

Finally , I'll note that at the top of http://cosy.com/#PlanetaryPhysics , I state my goal wrt that battle :
 

Seeking an executable understanding of the differential in a voxel
because mapping it over a sphere is rather trivial in an APL like CoSy

 
See also Modeling the Planet in APL I presented at the 2013 Minnowbrook APL implementers conference . It is seriously possible to make a competitive planetary ` climate model ( actually mean temperature is much simpler ) in a few ( and therefore understandable ) pages of CoSy or K . Roy Spencer is proud that they've gotten the Fortran for analysis of their satellite temperature sensing data down below 10,000 lines .


I'll be back to holding Zooms this Saturday 1000 MDT ( Sat.Aug,20200815.1000-6 ) . Join me if interested any aspect of CoSy including understanding and implementing the physics relevant to modeling the planet in the classical analytical quantitative manner .

Bob A
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On 2020-08-11 11:00, Rick Collins wrote:

I'm sorry, maybe I'm showing my age, but I don't understand what you are referring to, "disrespect the garbage ClimateChange"  What is this???  Google was no help simply showing me images and links about garbage and plastic pollution.  Is that what you are talking about?

Rick Collins


At 10:21 AM 8/11/2020, you wrote:

Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Just yesterday I tweeted about a a company I'm very impressed with is https://www.comsol.com/  :

A potentially very useful interface with @CoherentSystems :

https://www.comsol.com/events/training-courses

The ` Climate Modelers & all in the AlGoreWarming box need to see the reality of serious engineering modeling in 2020 .
— CoSy (@CoherentSystems) August 10, 2020

I posted it in the context of the disrespect the garbage ClimateChange nee AlGoreWarming models ( which omit Newton's Law of Gravity ) has caused in that controversy against all models .

But an essential thing CoSy needs now ( other than fresh heads & startup projects ) is interfaces to the Rest of the World -- mainly the Web .
--

I finally was forced to get a smart ( android ) phone ( moto g6 ) and have moved my shopping ToDo list from an internal item in the Root dictionary to OneDrive so I can pull it up on the phone .

BobA
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On 2020-08-11 06:33, Kevin Appert wrote:

There is a free download of the Express version and a 30-day trial of the pay version:  (I have not tried it)

https://www.mathcad.com/en/try-and-buy/mathcad-express-free-download

There is also a YouTube video on downloading the full Ver15 for free but it looked a little dodgy to me.  One of the instructions was "Disable your antivirus" which is normal for some installs but I'd want to do further research.    There was a password in the text description,  it may just be piracy and not malware.

On 8/10/2020 11:59 PM, Andrew Korsak wrote:

Peace thru Freedom
Honesty enforced thru Transparency ,
 
-- Bob@CoSy.com -- Bob Armstrong Vita -- @CoherentSystems --
CoSy  The Shortest Path from the Chip to the Math
I reserve the right to post all communications I receive or generate to CoSy website for further reflection
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_______________________________________________ http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/svfig neither public nor private, this membership of correspondence

_______________________________________________


http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/svfig
neither public nor private,
this membership of correspondence

--
Bob A

Peace thru Freedom
Honesty enforced thru Transparency ,
 
-- Bob@CoSy.com -- Bob Armstrong Vita -- @CoherentSystems --
CoSy  The Shortest Path from the Chip to the Math
I reserve the right to post all communications I receive or generate to CoSy website for further reflection
--

--
Bob A

Peace thru Freedom
Honesty enforced thru Transparency ,
 
-- Bob@CoSy.com -- Bob Armstrong Vita -- @CoherentSystems --
CoSy  The Shortest Path from the Chip to the Math
I reserve the right to post all communications I receive or generate to CoSy website for further reflection
--