Subject: Re: [lpny_manhattan] Re: Circumcision/A little comic relief
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:39:28 -0500
To:        <lpny_manhattan@yahoogroups.com>
From:     Bob Armstrong <bob@cosy.com>
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 03:47:57 -0500, Pamela Wilcox wrote:
>=A0Most others just seemed to think that we had no business=
 getting involved with other culture's "time-honored practices",=
 some going as far as romanticizing the practice as "non-western"=
 and a small price to pay for letting primitive cultures evolve=
 peacefully on their own. 

 Its not a matter of "romanticizing" such practices ; I just=
 consider it
 their business , not mine . 

>=A0Some thought we were going so far as to advocate war with these=
 countries. =A0I wouldn't go so far as that, but I would require=
 countries accepting foreign aid from us to be educated as to the=
 negative aspects of this practice.

 Taken money , tax money should not go to ANY country or culture=
 any more
 than it should go to a religion .

>=A0What about such "time honored"practices as slavery, for one?=
 =A0Would most of the defenders of female circumcision stand by and=
 watch the culture involved evolve naturally away from that???

 Ostracize them , boycott them if you want .

>=A0=A0Sometimes, after the removal of the clitoris, the vagina is=
 sealed up, leaving a small amount of space for urine and=
 menstrual blood to be passed. =A0I wonder how small. =A0On marriage,=
 the husband is allowed to undo the stitches, for the purpose of=
 intercourse. =A0If he goes on a long journey, or is sexually=
 incapacitatd for a time, he has the right to "re-seal" his=
 wife.
>
>=A0The reasons given are predictable, if not understandable; =A0to=
 insure a wife's virginity at time of marriage (strange, isn't it=
 that there is no equivalent practice to insure the type of=
 husband a virgin bride is getting); =A0keeping a woman's=
 expectations down (not all men are good at bringing a woman to=
 orgasm; "she won't miss what she's never had" seems to apply=
 here); =A0and keeping a woman from straying if/when her husband=
 becomes old and less virile. 

 The reasons for such "sealing" practices , including chastity=
 belts in
 mechanized Europe , are overwhelmingly motivated by the=
 prevention of
 bastards . Sexual enjoyment or lack there of is inconsequential=
 compared
 with men's seeking the certainty that the children they spend=
 their lives
 and fortunes supporting are their own . They do not trust either=
 the
 women or their fellow men . It is an issue of reducing
 the "maybe" in "Mother's baby , Father's maybe" .

 I am continually amazed by the lack of appreciation of the life=
 and death
 consequences of sex before common birth control in marginally=
 surviving
 cultures . It is no accident that such extreme practices evolved=
 in , eg ,
 the desert cultures of the Mid East , as opposed to Polynesia .

 I think one of the most poignant scenes showing these life and=
 death
 consequences , tho on the somewhat different issue of the danger=
 of 
 pregnancy to the woman is in "The Immigrants" when Liv Ullmann=
 choose
 to have sex with her husband even tho she has been told that=
 another
 pregnancy is likely to kill her .  Which it does .

--=A0
=A0Bob Armstrong -- http://CoSy.com -- 212-285-1864
Computing Environment : =A0http://CoSy.com/CoSy/
A WTC vision : http://CoSy.com/CoSy/ConicAllConnect/

Liberty : http://CoSy.com/Liberty.htm
Restore our Right to Relax :
=A0http://ny.lp.org/cgi-bin/petition.cgi?Against_the_Smoking_Ban
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A02003/12/04 10:04:55 AM