Subject: Re: [LPNY DISCUSS] Free market environmentalism Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:36:39 -0500 To: From: Bob Armstrong On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:20:46 -0000, Jeff Bennett wrote: >=A0--- In lpny_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "greghevia"= >=A0wrote: >=A0>=A0"I'll give you another example of how pollution is a form of >=A0>=A0corporate subsidy. When General Electric dumped PCBs into= the >=A0Hudson >=A0>=A0River, it was avoiding the costs of bringing its product to= market, >=A0>=A0which was the cost of properly disposing of a dangerous= processed >=A0>=A0chemical. But when it avoided the cost, the cost didn't just >=A0>=A0disappear -- it went into the fish, it made people sick, it= put >=A0>=A0people who depend on the river for their livelihood out of= work. I >=A0>=A0now have 1,000 commercial fishermen, my clients, who are now >=A0>=A0permanently out of work. It dried up the river's barge= traffic >=A0>=A0because the shipping channels are now too toxic to dredge. > > .... >=A0I've got some questions. GE dumped the stuff from 1940-1977.= Where >=A0was the government? If they have any function at all it's to >=A0prosecute. Thirty seven years of dumping PCB's is a long time.= Right >=A0out in the open. > >=A0What was the science at the time? Did either side have reason= to >=A0believe/disbelieve in the harm of PCB's? I looked into the GE / Hudson Valley PBC dredging back when the= EPA planned to dredge what RFK.Jr is now saying is too toxic to= dredge . See http://cosy.com/cal01/cur0107.htm for some notes when I= was very impressed by the Science presented by GE compared to the= Fuzz provided by the Environmentalists who would have ripped up the= river to save it . There is a lot of discussion of the topic from= around message 6027 to 6074 on this discussion group . Click http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpny_discuss/messagesearch/7864?qu= ery=3Dhudson%20pcb For the science , history and data , I suggest doing a search on= the GE web site . They have a thorough discussion . Briefly : As with asbestos , the fear mongers rarely mention why these substances became so widely used in the first place . PCBs were introduced to eliminate oil filled transformer fires and= explosions . PCBs were ideal because they were so inert . Their inertness= also showed itself in apparently extremely low toxicity as evidenced= in the lack of problems among the workers who spent years in rooms sloshing with the stuff - conditions which obviously no one= would tolerate for anything anywhere today . GE was , of course ,= always within the government rules for discharges during all those= years . The idea that PCBs were toxic appears to have come from some= being sold in cooking oil in Asia . When scorched in a very hot wok= it did break down into a mess of chemicals which were on the whole toxic . If the EPA has given up its plan to spend the larger part of a billion dollars of GEs money to dredge and truck off to make a mountain somewhere the bottom of the upper Hudson , I= congratulate the residents of the area on their good fortune . It would have been a mess with more to worry about than the parts per billion PCBs . Let sleeping sludge lie . Let nature take care of it in= its own ways . In particular , a basic lesson in Geology 101 is= that rivers scour their bottoms only during floods . A large flood , when it occurs will flush out the bottom and move it down the river over a period of days further diluting any PCBs= enormously at the same time . Much cleaner than having a man made dribble= of them , and whatever else , over a period of years . The only reason there is no fishing or commerce in the area is= that it has been outlawed . --=A0 =A0Bob Armstrong -- http://CoSy.com -- 212-285-1864 Computing Environment : =A0http://CoSy.com/CoSy/ A WTC vision : http://CoSy.com/CoSy/ConicAllConnect/ Liberty : http://CoSy.com/Liberty.htm Restore our Right to Relax : =A0http://ny.lp.org/cgi-bin/petition.cgi?Against_the_Smoking_Ban =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A02003/11/19 4:41:07 PM