Subject: Re: [drugwar] Death by herbicide Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 10:19:36 -0400 To: From: Bob Armstrong On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 15:54:54 -0500, Jules Siegel wrote: > The problem in the >=A0cases being discussed here is that the state has become the= instrument of >=A0economic institutions that have even less ethical constraints= than >=A0governments. This is exactly where you are analytically wrong . No company= can prosecute a drug war . No company can imprison people . All - all - a= business can do is meet a market of goods or services desired by potential= customers . > Many a government at least sets out to do good, and some of >=A0them even succeed in great measure. Only to the extent that they facilitate FREEDOM of INDIVIDUALS= in non-aggressive pursuit of their individual happiness . When the Political Class has used it FORCE beyond that , IT HAS= CREATED UNFATHONABLE HORRORS . Hitler , Stalin , Pol Pot , Hussein ,= etc , etc , etc , Socialists all . >=A0No business sets out to do good. It sets out to create goods that others will voluntarily CHOOSE= . > Businesses set out to make money. What do you live on ? Hunting and gathering ? > Monsanto >=A0could simply tell the Colombian government and the United= States government >=A0that the product is being used in unauthorized ways and= therefore they won't >=A0sell them any more of it. You know damn well the Government would just make it themselves= like they do chemical , bio and nuc weapons . Furthermore , it's on the= general market for productive purposes ; the government can buy it from= brokers . > Are they going to do that? They are going to do >=A0their best to keep selling them more and more of it. They can't FORCE the Government to buy it . >=A0So let's quit the sanctimonious rhetoric, which I have to say I= find >=A0flat-out disgusting. Ditto . And unanalytic State cultist nonsense . I have no desire to decrease your skepticism of businesses . Caveat emptor . But rethink this dangerous faith in a more= noble class of political masters making all our decisions for our own= good out of their superior intelligence and sense of charity . > Libby and others here are using their persuasive powers >=A0to influence the only mechanisms now available to thwart the= forces of evil >=A0in any measure at all. Same here . > They are attempting to mobilize public opinion and >=A0the voters -- because that's the only thing that has a chance= of working. Same here . From the pure use of force under kings and= dictators , democracy brought a very crude market feedback to the control of= governments . Once every couple of years you have one token to spend on the ever= more fortified political duopoly . It is ONLY that market component that= provides ANY ethical constraint on government . >=A0Anything else is just a pose. Now perhaps Preston will ask me= to moderate my >=A0tone, but I am not saying anything that I wouldn't tolerate on= my own rather >=A0strictly supervised list. I am not insulting you personally. Hey , I've got no problem . We're big boys . The topic is War . > I am merely >=A0challenging you to come forward with a single concrete proposal= instead of >=A0your endlessly negative philosophizing. I don't consider a philosophy if Individual Liberty and= Responsibility and non-initiation of force or fraud negative . What exactly is your philosophy ? Can you state it succinctly= ? >=A0You have no solutions. You have no alternatives to government.= If you do, >=A0state them. All you are doing is heckling. I have given references to much of the tremendous Literature of= Freedom . Let me just repeat Max Eastman and Friedrich Hayek . Who would you steer my to for the foundations of your philosophy= ? --=A0 =A0Bob Armstrong -- http://CoSy.com -- 212-285-1864 Liberty : http://cosy.com/Liberty.htm =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A02003/08/18 9:26:20 AM